Learn top tier grow advice from commercial cannabis consultant, Jason Talmage of Higher Standard Cannabis Consultants in Episode 3 of the Canna Cribs Podcast, where we document history with the pioneers of the global cannabis industry. In this interview, you will get an inside look of the cannabis consulting business. With Jason's 20+ years of cannabis experience he takes us into a deep dive from common issues and misconceptions in the cannabis industry to advice for growers starting a new operation.
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Table of Contents
0:00 Opening
1:39 Jason & Background
9:35 Hope Railroad
14:10 High Times Cup for CBD flower
20:24 Medical vs Recreational markets
25:00 Licensing and Testing for legal cannabis businesses
42:35 Common Issues as a Cannabis Operator
52:30 Bad Advice in the Cannabis Industry
56:30 IPM Strategy
1:02:18 Mistakes New Growers Make
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#consulting #cannabis #growingcannabis #cannabisoil #growingmarijuana #medicalmarijuana #marijuana #howtogrowweed #cannacribs #2020business #industry #podcast #tucson #smoke #weedeveryday #weed #smokingweed #maryjane #dispensary #customgrow420 #qualitycontrol #vape #DeepRoots #howhigh #cannacribspodcast #quest #hoperailroad #pheno #cbd
- Hey, I'm Nick. Creator of Cannacribs and Growers Network, where we have educated millions of people on how to elevate their craft. I have toured some of the largest grow operations, befriended the best growers and built a network of the top cannabis companies. Join me on this next adventure where I document history with the pioneer shaping of global cannabis industry in real-time. Welcome to the Cannacribs podcast.
- Hey, welcome back to the Cannacribs podcast, I'm your host Nick Morin, and today's interview is with Jason Talmage, the owner of Higher Standard Cannabis Consulting. And in this interview, Jason gives us a deep dive into his 20 years of cannabis cultivation knowledge. He shares the horror stories and success stories from his consulting career, and explains the ideal mindset one needs, when you're trying to start a cannabis grow operation in the industry today, enjoy.
- [Narrator] Growing cannabis on a commercial scale is difficult. That's why companies hire experts like Jason. Jason travels all around the country, solving problems, everything from lighting setups, to pest control, and even IPM strategy. And when it comes to controlling your environment there's one company that I've seen across the majority of the farms that we film for Canna Cribs and Deep Roots. That company my friends is Quest. You might've heard of them. So whether you're growing in one room or a hundred rooms, Quest can help you master that environment. Check them out at growershouse.com. I'll link it in the show notes. Now let's dive into the episode.
- Jason, welcome to the Cannacribs podcast.
- Hey, happy to be here, thanks Nick.
- Yeah so our paths have crossed, I know that you're in the consulting space at Higher Standard Cannabis Consulting, but you have a lengthy career in the cannabis industry before a lot of this recreational, you know, markets came to be what it is today. Can you tell me about your background?
- Well, I like to say it's a long one so I'll try to be, you know, encapsulate as much as possible, but I suppose it's somewhat interesting when I got into it. I had just got back from backpacking across the Central America, and, you know, I had been growing cannabis for a couple of years, just, you know, just learning at home since I was 19. And then when I was 23, soon as I got back from that trip I had a very dear friend of mine call me within two or three days and let me know that he had cancer. And, you know, just trying to give him something to look to past his illness, said you know what? You're gonna get better, I'm going to move up to Washington, we're gonna grow some medical cannabis and take another trip.
- Wow.
- And yeah, so I did and he got better, and I moved up to Washington, and we did that very thing, and we found that we both had a talent for it, and so we stuck with it and here to almost 20 plus years later, almost 25 years later, you know, it's been now a career at this point.
- That's incredible. So it all started with a medicinal purpose for the plant and providing medicine for someone dear to you. I mean, that's super powerful.
- It brought meaning to it in a way that, you know, just say just doing it for recreational purposes. I mean, don't get me wrong the freedom of choice issues that are attached to that are important to me as well, but there is something, there's just an added dynamic when dealing with the medical side. There's no doubt about it.
- Yeah, so what part of Washington did you move up to?
- Well, it was a small town about an hour outside of Seattle called a Port Orchard at the time.
- Okay, I grew up in Arlington, which is a small town as well, just about an hour outside of Seattle.
- [Jason] I know it well yeah, beautiful.
- Yeah, yeah they've gone through a lot of changes and cannabis partly being a driver of those changes I kinda moved in, well, I moved in 2008, so I moved right before the quote unquote Green Rush entered into to Arlington for some, you know, probably much needed change in evolution. So did you take part in, you know, helping form the initial recreational market in Washington?
- I would say I had a more influence in the development of the medicinal, although when I entered into the recreation, although there's an interesting backstory to that as well, you know, I started at one of the top growers in the state and, you know, shortly quickly, pretty quickly took them, you know, with the help of my team of course, to the top spot in the country. I was able to increase their yields by about 30%, and, you know, that was great. But the medicinal side, you know, they had, it was really raw when we entered into it. And, you know, you had to stack licenses, and what we would do is we, you know, you could have three licenses with 15 plants a piece. So what I did is I just sought out people who were quite ill, you know, with severe disabilities or illnesses, and I took their licenses, and then they became a designated provider for them.
- Okay.
- And then so every crop I would give them a pound or two off the top or the money from it, which also allowed a lot of, you know, the people, the sick people that I dealt with to, you know, some of them to get off social security, to start paying bills on their own, to give them just a little something to feel good about themselves with, and of course, that has an effect on the immune system as well. So, even though it was a little disjointed, once we figured out how to get around some of those laws and issues, it did, it was done, we were able to do it in a way that was able to help people in additional ways.
- Yeah that's a really good point of financial freedom and less burden financially to lessen the stress, which improves the immune system. It's all connected as you just put it, that's a really good point to bring up. So was that company Northwest Cannabis Solutions that you worked at on the rec side?
- It is, that was my entry into the recreational which, so in Washington, they, when they legalized recreational unlike some of the other states, they eliminated medical. And,
- Is that really? Wow.
- Yeah, which it was devastating to.
- Oh my gosh I did not know that.
- Yeah, it was terrible, frankly. And also alluded to it being a money grab a bit by the state. The, probably the worst thing to come out of that in my opinion is, we weren't able to help, you know, those people that we helped get off social security we were just talking about, they were right back on it. And they lost their free medicine as well. I had a lot of friends, you know, who did things like cashing their 401ks, you know, mortgage their homes, did, you know, did whatever they could to open dispensary's. And then they all had to shut them down because they did what they said was a lottery system to give out licenses. I don't know anyone without, they didn't have a lot of money that was able to get one, which was-
- It wasn't a true lottery.
- Well, you know, there's rumors, but I think it was interesting that most of the people that did win them, not everyone, but most of the people did have money. And like I said, most of the dispensary owners I knew lost their business, which they were unable to get that, you know, their 401ks back or whatever they did to invest in that. For growers like myself, it was a little different, because I was able to transition, I still have all my equipment from my old grows. I usually set up four to five grows at a time with three people attached to each one in addition to a grower.
- That's a lot
- It was, we were one of the larger producers medically in the state and, you know, did well, you know, I did most of my own genetics, and our strains were the top sellers at almost everywhere they were, which, you know, we had a lot of fun with that. And again, though I, you know, the growers were able to transition at least some of us. Although one thing that I did have an advantage over some other growers which, you know, some people would turn garage doors is, I had to create a business model with a very strict principles that we had to follow to keep things going with my medical co-op I guess we called it.
- Okay.
- It wasn't a true co-op but you know, that was what we had to label it legally. So I was able to, you know 'cause that is a problem that a lot of people find in rec, and looking for grow masters or directors of cultivation is how to grow plants, but they don't know how to run crews, they don't know how to establish, you know, budgets and manage those budgets, they don't have know how to create repeatable SLPs, or training programs, or set up departments, or just industry standards.
- Yeah, for any industry right? I mean just business 101 of starting a company, HR, management, proper accounting, that's pretty unique that you bring both to the table. You have the cultivation background and pair that with your, you know, business management background.
- Well, you know, I was fortunate enough to be in a position to have to create that model and, you know, a lot of people didn't necessarily go in that direction. It was hard to predict how that would affect the future of my career and fortunately it affected it in very positive ways.
- So I wanna shine a light on a special project of yours that you've been working on outside of the cannabis industry, but it goes to show, you know, your heart, right? And your heart of service all the way back to, you know, growing for your friend initially to child trafficking now with this nonprofit that you're part of. Can you tell me about Hope Railroad, the mission, and what you're working towards there?
- Yeah, absolutely. You know, something that's dear to my heart, you know, it's lost a little steam since we established it, but I would love, you know, actually hoping to, our discussion on the podcast today may bring some more people into it that we could really ramp up again. Kinda came about, you know, it was, some of us may remember back in 2016 when, you know, there was a ban on immigrants coming in, and people were stuck in the airports, and, you know there's a big, a big deal about, and they just basically cut off immigration, and, you know, what got me is that was actually Holocaust awareness date that that happened on, and that's why we call the Hope Railroad because of that. We, the idea was spawned because of that odd, you know, coincidence, you know. So, you know, with the immigration issues, and especially with trafficking, it's, you know, started doing some research into it. And it turned out that as a lot of these trafficking victims they're able to file for a special visa. And while they're, while that's being investigated to confirm that they were trafficked, and to be able to prosecute their traffickers, they're protected basically like a witness protection.
- Okay
- ICE started coming in and deporting these people while they were waiting for that approval investigation to take place. And then, once they were, so they were basically throwing people back into slavery, including their, you know, children. So there is, you know, let's throw some fresh new slaves out there. It was kinda, it was just heart break, heart wrenching. So the real work, we started, you know, of course a lot of it was bringing awareness to people because very few people were aware of that, and also to get people to get trafficking victims out. So there was two states at the time that set up safe houses, one was Missouri and one was in New York. So we were taking, helping people in states that ICE was coming in and doing that, and deporting when they shouldn't have while they're waiting for that visa to be approved. And we were getting them safely to Missouri and New York, so they could, so they just had a safe place until that visa was approved. And then they were no longer subject to deportation. And then that's at the core of it. So we did it quite secretly. And of course, spreading awareness on the issue is probably the paramount concern because yeah, people just aren't aware of.
- Well, that's, that's why I wanted to bring it up today. I know it's not directly how to grow, or you're growing background, but I know it's very near and dear to your heart, and something that I wanted to provide, you know, the Cannacrib's platform to share more about that. And, is there anywhere online that people can go to learn more before we dive into the heavy, you know, grower questions?
- Yeah. Well, you know, hoperailroad.com. And I have a website that, you know, that has a quite a bit of information for people. It's a resource, and also a place for trafficking victims to contact us, and if they need help. And it's a, you know, hoperailroad.com, and I do appreciate you bringing some attention to this today because it is outside of growing, but maybe more important.
- We are all humans, right? I mean, so it doesn't matter what your career profession is. We're sharing stories, and it's not just cannabis. We're talking about the, the global scale of what cannabis can do for all of us, and the people helping to push that change. And you're a great example of that. And, you know, your heart is in the right place, and I commend you for all of your work on that project. I'll make sure to link it in the show notes. So people can go to that website and learn more.
- Fantastic, Thank you. Thank you so much.
- Yeah, yeah. You got it. So I saw it in my research that you recently won in 2019 high times cup for your CBD flower. So walk me through that experience. What was that like? What were the genetics that you submitted? Can you tell me more about that?
- Absolutely. I mean, that was quite the experience surreal in a way, as most, you know, most people of my generation just read about that, is a far away thing.
- [Nick] Yeah.
- And so we were lucky enough to have it at the hemp fest here in Seattle. And so it was huge hundreds of thousands of people there.
- Wow.
- [Jason] Oh, it was fan that you have, that was amazing.
- That is huge.
- You know, and just to, it's just a big stage, and you know, there was many different categories. And so when I had just come on to a new farm there, and oddly enough, that was our first crop, and which also I was kind of exciting, and the genetics were [Indistinct]
- Okay. I know how [Indistict] is that?
- Yes. And that is it's half the genetics, of course. So, and in can of tonic. And so it does have a bit of GACs, so it wouldn't be classified as hemp, so it still was cannabis, but, but high CBD cannabis with, you know, the THC was about 3%, and our CBD was coming in at over 25%, the levels, which were very high, of course, other,
- That's incredible.
- Yeah, it's a fantastic strain. And, you know, if you do things correctly, the genetics will take, they'll take care of what you tend to do.
- Are you surprised by the results?
- I was not actually, but I was, I wasn't at the same time, you know, sometimes you just have to accept what's in front of you, but like I say, it was surreal. Yeah. So I suppose I was surprised, but the dedication I put into growing, you know, I was, you know, I expected to do something there, but at the same time just appreciative of any of the accolades, and when that we actually, to win our medal, it was fantastic. And I have to give credit to our team, my team of growers, my team and managers. You know it all, it's a group effort and that this doesn't happen with one person's oversight or work. And I just had a fantastic team with good genetics, and my passion and love, and we were able to bring the medal home.
- Nice. Congratulations on that, that victory there. Do you have any trends that you've seen in CBD genetics recently that you can share?
- Well, you know, I mean with hemp being approved by the department of agriculture, you know, there is innovations with genetics, I mean every day, more and more than we can keep up with frankly, and tons of strains out there. And, you know, and of course with the CBD genetics, I would say that the biggest changes maybe don't have to do with things other than the genetics themselves. But I would say interstate commerce is the thing to bring the most attention to with CBD. We can grow CBD, we can grow medicine, CBD strains and hemp, which is cannabis just with lowest THC in it.
- Right
- And with a different label, legal label on it. And we can ship it anywhere, which makes it accessible to people that don't, you know, that not every state has medical cannabis approved,
- Right
- But the hemp side of it now, people can, they can receive that anywhere they live. And that's an amazing thing.
- And you can leverage the regional climate that might be a little bit more, you know, suited better, better suited to grow hemp and yield a higher, you know, CBD cultivar, then maybe another part of the country, but have the power to leverage that in one state, and then ship it across the country somewhere else. That's powerful. And to me, I'm looking forward for one day in our lifetime where we can do that with cannabis in a high THC, you know, cultivar. That, do you think that's where we're heading? Do you see that happening in the next 5-10 years?
- That is the exact timeline I usually cite when asked that question, I think within 5 to 10 years, although, you know, it's dependent on so many variables, there's so many factors.
- And variables we don't know.
- Yeah. That's the thing. I mean, we can't even conceive of all the different things that need to happen, even though we, you know, I mean, we can simplify it in a way, legalize it federally, but of course it's more complicated than that.
- Yeah.
- And, a lot of it depends on the leadership of our country of course. And, you know, we're just going to have to wait and see, but the good news on that is that there are, it's such a big issue now for, I mean, there are very few issues that are in the public eye more than this over the past few years. And, you know, there's a lot going on in so many other areas, as some of which we talked about earlier that I don't want to say it's taking the back seat, but maybe it should for some of the things like the things we discussed earlier. But it's still there in people's minds. And I do think within five, you know I'd be shocked if it took 10 years for it to happen. I would expect five, five years is probably a good timeline.
- Yeah. And it goes back to the team. You know, the team to take a High Times Cannabis Cup for one flower or a team, you know, at the federal government level to allow this for everyone. It just goes back to the people, right. And states providing good examples and models to follow. I'm sorry to hear that, that experience that you saw in Washington, I was not familiar with that. That just, you know, completely blows my mind. I should have known that, but I'm glad that I learned it here today from your experience firsthand. So let's dive into medicinal versus recreational state markets. Is there any state that's doing it really well in your opinion that we can model potentially the federal government after, or new states coming online to look at.
- You know, to be honest, I would look at Oregon and in Colorado, and which were some of the first to do that. But they integrated the two, and gave the owners the option to just transitions to straight recreational, or, you know, I mean there's a lot of dispensary's that have both. You're just on one side of the building, or they have one side of the shop is recreational, the other side is medicinal. And that's important because when people are coming in for medicine, the atmosphere matters. It really really does. because if you're not careful, people will feel diminished. They will feel invalidated. I mean, it goes to even like what we were talking about, about giving people something to look forward to, even my entry into it. It wasn't necessarily about growing the cannabis. It was trying to give somebody something to look to past their illness. And so to try to make their illness, just something, they just, it's kind of, there's something to deal with on the side, but it's not the everything of their life, and atmosphere, you know, walking into just a fun party atmosphere does not necessarily make somebody that sick feel safe. Especially when we're talking about people that haven't used recreationally, which is a ton of patients, you know, a lot of the older generations. People of older generations that come in that realize that it has medicinal value, but they have no interest in getting high. They just want to help their condition. So they don't want to walk into a store that feels like a head shop or something.
- Right.
- So I do believe that it's important to have that separation.
- Yeah. I've heard a lot of people complain about the quality of medicinal cannabis compared to recreational cannabis. Can you teach me what's going on there? And in your opinion, as an owner of a grow operations and as a consultant, are there different rule books that they're playing by? Is there, you know, different psychology in the mind of a business owner for a medical grow operation compared to recreational? I know it definitely varies state to state, but is there a framework or mindset that you could share with me today?
- Absolutely. Well, in my opinion, it mostly has to do with scale. I mean, generally medical growers are a bit smaller, and are able to be a little more involved in the plant care. It can be done on scale for recreational, but you gotta have the right grower, and at a smaller grow, you know, there's more growers with the experience necessary to do that. But as soon as you get to a certain square footage, you know, I mean when you get really massive, there's a big difference between say growing one room with a perpetual cycle. And then once you start having multiple rooms that you need to have on a perpetual cycle, suddenly the scheduling becomes so much more complex. And so the departments need to be different. This setup needs to be different. And they're just in areas that most growers don't have any experience in. It's not their fault. It's nobody's fault, except maybe the federal government's I suppose. But even we're talking about bringing in academians, they don't have experience with cannabis, so they have this scientific acumen, but they don't have the holistic approach you apply it in a lot of cases. So for me, it has simplify, encapsulate, or just say it has to do a scale mostly.
- Yeah. Oh, that's a great response. It makes a whole lot of sense. So we're going to take our first break, Jason, when we get back, we're going to dive headfirst into your consulting work that you do today.
- [Jason] Awesome. Sounds fantastic. Thanks Nick.
- [Nick] Hey, hope you're enjoying the episode so far. I'm not sure if you've heard the word on the street yet, but our friends over at growershouse.com are selling quest factory refurbished units for 15% off regular pricing with a three-year warranty. That's a smoking deal. By the time you're listening to this, you might've already missed out. So go on over to growershouse.com and see for yourself. And if you haven't been to grower's house. They have a lot of different growing essentials, such as trellis, netting, trim trays, and more. Now back to the episode.
- All right, we are back, and I'd love to dive into your consulting work today. So are you mostly working with new grow operations? Is this like their first time running a business? Can you teach me a little bit more about your clientele?
- Sure. Well, what the experience that I have in the other growers that I have working for me on the consultant side, I'm really all in about seed to sale. And so we have clients that we helped set up from the ground on up. Also a lot of clients who just needs things like diagnostics work. I have a unique IPM program that uses principles that aren't really common knowledge in the industry. Diagnostics, it's big. Departments set up, and, you know, rarely have I found the departments set up in the growers that they're set up properly, or at least, you know, in a way that can streamline efficiency the way it needs to be.
- Teach me about that. What's typically not set up properly, and how do you fix that in your work?
- Well, you know, maybe I'll use an example of a grow I worked at for a year. They, when I, so when I came on, they had just one floating crew of like 20 people or so, and they just would float around with their grow master, looking for things to do. They weren't tasking things out the way they should, you know, there's so, you got to control all the variables that you're able to because there's so many that you're unable to see. So if you control all the variables that you noticed, it leaves you more prepared to handle the ones that you didn't.
- Yeah.
- And so with the departments, you know I, you need a vegetation department, especially at scale, if it's a very small grow then that still works. But once you reach a certain scale, you need a vegetation department, and then a flowering department, you need a post-production department, you need an IPM department, which stands for integrated pest management. It goes on and on, the packaging department, if you're processing oils, it have to have a separate department for procurement. If you're not producing enough in-house to make your oils and fill your flower needs, you know, it's, there's a lot. And in fact, when I came onto that grow, I, you know, really the first thing I did was split that one crew into five different departments.
- Smart. And can you teach me, let's say a couple of different phases, you know, of scaling, right? So let's say a 5,000 square foot grow operation to 50,000 to let's say like full blown, and maybe you just have a handful of growers in the beginning. Maybe it's a grower slash owner that has a couple helping hands, and then that next level, and then that third level where, you know, they're at scale. So what are the initial roles that you help implement in that team through each level?
- So, okay. So I would say with the square footage, and, you know, splitting things up and about 5,000 square feet, you can still get away with having one floating crew. And in fact, that's probably will be the way to go. You don't want to needlessly pay managers, you know, the salaries that come with those positions, if it can be done by one person. Once you hit about 10,000 square feet It's where I would say you should probably consider splitting it up at least into two departments. A vegetation and flowering. At that level, you could still get away with having your IPM department, and your post-production department integrated, usually post-production will be part of the flowering department of course. Compliance would usually be a separate department, but that can be done by the vegetation department normally at that scale, and so on and so forth. Once you get above 10,000, that's when you really got to have to start considering just splitting up into those five or more departments.
- Right You know, cause that's when you have to start splitting up rooms to the point where you have three, four or five, six on and on. In Northwest cannabis solutions, we have 45 separate flowering rooms, for example.
- 45 to maximize control. You guys wanted them smaller to have a more controlled environment and decrease the spread of diseases and pests.
- Yeah. Cross-contamination is always an issue, especially at that level, which of course you need to keep all the rooms contained. You make sure your crews are going in tiebacks, make sure you're identifying rooms that have problems. Make sure they're worked on at the end of the day by specific people that have their tiebacks. I always also, I think it's always a good idea that scale to have, uniforms, I suppose. Overalls or tiebacks that they wear every day. So, but also it keeps your product fresh. If you just have a 50,000 square foot facility that brings everything down at once. You know, you're not going to be able to sell it all at once. Either it takes, even if you're selling it fast. So having that perpetual cycle and fresh product coming in all the time helps increase quality.
- Yeah. What about some common misconceptions with new business owners in the cannabis space that you've come across?
- [Jason] Well.
- I'm sure that's like a weekly basis.
- And it's a loaded question too, with just a minute, so many different answers that could be put on that, apply to that question. But some of the bigger things that I encounter, profit margins aren't really what a lot of people, a lot of owners expect. So which, that means of course managing budgets becomes so critical. And of course, a lot of growers don't necessarily have experience with that. You need a really varied skillset to manage grow, and also it's a team effort. So, you know, as we've been discussing, I would say trying to just stick a couple of people to manage the entire facility is a big mistake as well. And that's why I encounter so many times the first thing we need to do is split up into departments. And that includes having an operations manager, a general manager that works together with the director of cultivation. And, you know, I would say also infrastructure, investing in infrastructure, a lot of owners tend to try to, I don't know, maybe a good way to put it is their eyes are bigger than their stomach.
- You explained it nicely.
- Yeah. They were even trying to get us, we're digging around hole.
- There you go.
- You know, oftentimes I find it, those infrastructure problems come with the HVAC systems. You know, the owners don't want to invest in a state-of-the-art system, and then suddenly they don't have the climate controls. They need to maximize production. And there's, you have to consider the ROI on all these things, the return on investment, which I haven't encountered many growers that do that, and everything that requires money should have an ROI done on it by either director of cultivation or the GM or operations manager, depending upon what area they're considering you're talking about. So making sure that the infrastructure and equipment is what it needs to be to produce the amount of cannabis necessary to fill pay-roll, to pay all the bills because again profit margins aren't necessarily what a lot of owners think they're going to be. Especially when, if they don't get the right grower, and their production isn't maximized, or an efficiency needs to just be streamlined as well. I mean, maximize efficiency, maximize production, manage a budget very carefully, get the right management team into a place. I would also say it's very important. A lot of these owners look into other businesses if they have them and see if they can apply any areas that they've found success in those businesses, see if they can apply them to the cannabis, say, you know, if they have a robust marketing team or a marketing department that they could use in their cannabis company or distribution.
- That reminds of Phat Panda. I went out to film Phat Panda in Washington a couple of years ago. It was one of our first Cannacribs episodes. And the owners came from a marketing background. And to me it's like that packaging popped, those logos, the brand experience when they would buy the product, when, you know, someone would go into a dispensary and buy the product, it stood out. And I think that's a really good point leveraging skillsets from other industries as a business owner. That's your competitive advantage, in addition to your team and your growers that you foster.
- Oh, indeed. I mean, there's no question about it. I mean, you hit the nail on the head there with that. If Phat Panda is a great example now. During my time Northwest Cannabis Solutions, especially, we kind of jostle back and forth. That was the one competitor that.
- Yup, arch rival.
- He was arch rival. It was a friendly competition that, and frankly what, during my time there, we, they only, I think there was two months that they were able to overtake us.
- What was it like at the I502 website? I forgot what it was. There's a website where it lists like all the rankings.
- Yeah. It actually even goes into more detail than that list of rankings. It has to be reported how much revenue the companies make every month. It actually, in quarters, they reported every quarter, and how much production. So.
- Check the scoreboard, hommies?
- Yeah, frankly, I feel fortunate that that exists because a lot of growers, that's a problem a lot of growers encounter is that their careers are hard to verify. And, you know, since most of my career has been in Washington, it's easy to look up at what I've done. And, you know, I've had various articles done on me speaking engagements, and whatnot. But that I502 website is a godsend as far as a verification because that's another, you know, we should even, I should say, you know, another thing with ownership, do your due diligence. You know, don't just hire a grower because he talks a big game because they just they're marketing themselves as well. So due diligence and verify, it's hard to do because there's not very many places, but Washington growers do have that advantage.
- I'm sure you have come across your fair share of horror stories that you had to kind of like kitchen nightmare or rescue, whatever that show is, where you have to like go in and do an overhaul. I have growers such as yourself, friends in the industry that do consulting work, and they reach out to me cause they know me through Cannacribs. And they're like, hey Nick, like, can you create a new show with me where I go around the world and fix grow operations? And I'm like, that sounds amazing. Like, yes, one day we'll get there. Like my plate is really full right now. But for you, like, I'm sure you've seen a lot of horror stories. Could you share one, maybe that the name of the company or owners, but could you share a story with me that you came in and fixed and maybe provide some lessons for other growers? They don't have to live that experience twice.
- I mean, the one that pops out to me the most is I came into a grow, and they had lost their, they had a good grower on staff, inexperienced as far as running the business, but there was enough people in place on that side of it that they were able to maintain. And he did a good job and caring for the plants, staying on schedule, keeping things clean. When they lost him, they promoted somebody in house. It was just, didn't it, he just was in over his head a bit, not that he was bad at what he did. He just didn't have the base of knowledge quite yet. And so when I came in, it was a lot of fixing as far as just putting in training programs, repeatable SOP. But the nightmare was in that infrastructure, the HVAC system, frankly. So they had had a company that they had a contract with, to come to do maintenance on their HVAC system. And they were coming in and apparently doing maintenance on it and the front end went down, which is a control system for it. And they were apparently just giving these guys at no bits, they will give you a no big contract that won't go over $80,000 for the front end, and they couldn't give them any answers on what really needed to be fixed. So when I came in and the operations manager should have been on top of this, frankly, but when I came in, I went around and looked at the HVAC systems, and they didn't look like they were being maintained, I mean. So I called in three other HVAC companies to give us bids and to take a look. And there was one in particular, and I'm happy to mention their name, cause I still work with them at times, which is TCMs. They were fantastic.
- Could you say that one more time? That company name?
- Yeah, TCMS. And they're one of the larger HVAC companies in the Western United States and Canada. And one of their vice presidents came in and worked with me to assess everything that needs to be done. Our front end system, they were able to fix that without $80,000. Well, they did it for like five.
- Oh wow.
- Yes. And, but the biggest thing is they did discover that the maintenance, quote unquote, maintenance, it was being done by this other company, simply wasn't being done. And this even goes to that they weren't changing the filters. They weren't, you know, they should have been pressure washing it three or four times a year, at least the filtration systems in the condenser units. And so when those got clogged up, also, they weren't putting in the paper filters. So, one of that, and there's two parts to this nightmare. The other part is they were failing testing for what was called a gram negative bile tolerant bacteria. Now, that's one of the things that they test for on cannabis here in Washington. They couldn't figure out where it was coming from, what was happening. And when I noticed, and there was a fish fertilizer company that was next to us, Right. So they were bringing in fish and it was,
- Oh no, I see where this is going.
- Yeah, well and I should also mention that most bacteria that you find associated with fish are bile-tolerant gram-negative bacteria. So with that understanding, I saw sloshing over the edges of the truck onto the dirt that they were driving by our building on. And so we're having, what's called a drift, and it's something I dealt with when managing greenhouse grows. You have to coordinate with the farmers around you because when they're tilling up their farms or tilling up the soil, it kicks up. The soil gets kicked up in the air, and it contains pesticides that may contaminate. You know, viruses, fungus verticillium, , It's a big one. So you need to make sure you close your vents. But since they weren't putting in the paper filters, right, in the condenser units that drift the dust was getting in through our HVAC systems, and then getting into an environment that the other grower just wasn't keeping clean enough. So it was wet everywhere, just soggy soil, and all the rooms all over the everywhere you looked. And so once it got in there, then it spread. So I identified it, talked with the port, and they agreed to pay the road in the back. So that helped with the drift. Also the fish fertilizer place was very very good to work with us and they took measures to stop that from happening. But the biggest thing, because we brought in the right HVAC company. Now, if the contract went from something like 5,000 to upwards of a hundred. But that also guaranteed any equipment failures, and, you know, it was difficult convincing management or ownership, the necessity of that. But once I did it, I put together an ROI. Then it was easy for them to see. And frankly, oftentimes it is difficult to convey important information to ownership with if they don't have an understanding of what's happening, and it's important for growers not to get frustrated by that, it's our job to find a way to relate the information that's where it sinks in. And don't just pound your fist on the table, get frustrated and say, why aren't you listening to me? No, take a moment and find a different delivery for the information. If that doesn't work, find another delivery. If that doesn't work, do it again, and again, and again, I don't care if it takes a hundred different ways, leave your frustration aside.
- Detach that emotional reaction.
- Well, it's our job. So it's not about us. It's not about our egos. It's not about our, you know why aren't they listening to me, it's about striving for excellence and finding a way, and finding a path towards that.
- That's a very stoic mindset that you have and apply to cannabis cultivation. And I love that. I think you're exactly right. And I'm sure you bring that mindset into the grow operations that you can consult with. Talking about new clients, and you know, your business. So what are, would you say are the top three most common problems that you get called in for, at your firm?
- Excuse me. Well. I'd say the most common one would be issues with pests, and pesticide resistant pests. And because everyone in the industry struggles with that. Although I've been able to develop a regimen and an IPM program that where insects, it's impossible for them to build up resistance to. But that's scientific acumen and actually that would lead to a more simple way to state it. There is just a lack of scientific knowledge out in the industry. Now, when you bring people. You know say with horticulture degrees in, well you need that. But most of them, because of the laws, have not had eyes on cannabis. So say they know what all the new micro macronutrients are, and that they can become deficient, but how does it manifest on the plant? You need to, you know, there's subtle differences in colors and shades, and the difference between a leaf that's drooping and a leaf that's bending for example. Or a client, you know, there are a lot of manifestations that look similar with different causes. So to be able to discern exactly what that is, diagnostics, you need, not only to understand the science, which I would say that's the biggest problem in the industry. You need to love science, you need to, but you also have to be able to apply it with your instincts. And that's where the real green thumb comes in. You have to have the knowledge, but you have to be able to apply it correctly.
- That's the disconnect that you've seen with kind of the quote unquote academic world entering into the cannabis space, and perhaps not knowing how to apply that or transition that knowledge to the cannabis plant in particular.
- Oftentimes, and that's not a universal statement but that is, generally, I would say the biggest problem, finding someone with the varied skill set, the broad skill set with everything from understanding science, applying it, knowing the business side, knowing how to manage crews, understanding how to be a leader to get the most out of your crews, to have them respect their jobs enough, to do a good job when you're not there to watch them.
- That's huge.
- It is. And there's just so many things that go into it. And it's hard to find someone that, with that understanding.
- You know, on the flip side, Jason, I'm sure that you've seen some success stories. Do you have one that comes to mind kind of a turnaround where you entered into a situation that could have been a grow nightmare, but by the time you left, and there all the way up to this point today, they have been super successful.
- I would, frankly, I would say Northwest Cannabis Solutions again, you know, when I got on there, they were having some basic troubles, as an example, the first thing that they showed me, they asked me what do you think is wrong with this room? And I looked at it, and it looked to me, and I mentioned a moment ago about the difference between bending leaves and dripping leaves. Well, these are, why are these leaves drooping? I said, well, you notice the stem is actually bent here with a little bit of claw on the fingers of the leaves. And so I asked about water temperature and he said, no, no, it couldn't be the water temperature way. Everything's fine with that. What else do you think? And we went in and then I went through other questions cause they did a good job of collecting data. I talked about PH, we talked about, what's a nutrient regimen? Are you flushing all these different things? But then we had eventually rounded out, and went in a circle right back to the water temperature. And I just asked, well, can we go look at the records? And sure enough, those plants were getting hit with water in the temperatures of the forties as it was in the winter coming in. And that anything under 50 degrees, well, anything really under 60 degrees has the potential to lock up a plant. And in a nutrient lockout, that's more difficult to bring out than say a nutrient lockout due to a salt buildup. So, one of the first things we did is to put in a heat exchange system where the water ran through all the rooms, through pipes, was heated that way. And then it was the same temperature as the rooms when it got in. And so those plants felt like, there, I'll get into a nice warm bath. But there's a number of other things that we did. And, you know, probably don't have time to go into all the different things that had to fix at that point.
- Part two.
- [Jason] Part two. Yes. But I was able to increase production by 30%. And again, we took the top spot. I am proud of that, and I'm proud of my team that helped us achieve that. And we took the top spot in the nation for the rest of my time there. And I was head hunted away frankly, about a year later. But I would say that would be my favorite victory for lack of a better way to put it.
- Yeah, definitely. Have you ever come across a client with issues related to licensing or lab testing that maybe your company took part in helping to solve?
- Absolutely. What I alluded to earlier with, we were talking about the HVAC system, but that gram-negative bile tolerant bacteria, which is, even just, cause I just love science, right? So I already knew that that was associated with fish, but that wasn't a angle that anyone in the building would have ever drifted to. They would have just been kind of spinning their wheels endlessly, and they had failed multiple crops in a row before. I got there, which left the company on the verge of failure. And with the profit margins, the way they are, you just can't have multiple crops fail in a row. So, and with licensing, of course, it's always difficult. I mean, there's different challenges in every state. I have a partner down in San Diego, usually handles the legal side for my clients, well, because it's just so complicated and in every state, there.
- You need a subject matter expert.
- You do. And with all things, you know, I mean, identify people with the ability to get done with what you need to get done, and put them in a position, give them some responsibility and put them in a position to succeed and then successful, for the company will follow as well. Just got to make sure to provide the right oversight to make sure that those principles and standards are being followed.
- Definitely. Are there states in your opinion, Jason, that have maybe better licensing programs than others or better testing programs than others. That again, you know, new markets that are coming online every day, like, let's take Oklahoma, for example, they're one of the newer markets. Are they? Their licensing and testing systems, are they good? Could they be improved upon? Are there other states that they could learn from to strengthen their models?
- I wouldn't say it's, it is good. It's robust, but I think it could use a little more development. I know a lot of growers probably are frustrated by the amount of testing for different things. Everything from vitritis powder, , fungus's, molds, bacteria. There's so many different things that can make people sick. While that may frustrate some growers we needed. And if you're doing your job right, you don't need to be frustrated by that. We're trying, we need to keep people safe. And this is medicine for people. And even for the people using it recreationally, do we want to make them sick? I mean what do we feel at ? You know, we're gonna put cancer causing chemicals on a product where you can give the cancer to patients. I believe that's immoral.
- I agree with you. And I'd love to dive into your favorite style of growing. So maybe, let's just say outdoor greenhouse indoor. Let's start there, and then get into the weeds.
- Well, that, I mean, the boy, that's a big question actually. And my favorite, I mean, I love indoor. You can, the quality that you can get growing indoors. You just can't imagine. That being said the most profitable and efficient way to grow as in greenhouses. And I would recommend greenhouses over indoor, if you had to make a choice, if you're able to do both, a grow that I'm working with right now does both. A hallmark farm. They're fantastic. But I did as an example, I did fine. So we'll say green. When we're talking about scale, my favorite would be green. Some of the problems that I encountered when I got the Alomar farms, for example, they were at these 10 foot tall plants that they're sticking in their greenhouses. And now on a small scale, if you're just growing in one room, even if it's a perpetual cycle, you can get more production with those big plants. But as soon as you start having multiple rooms that you're trying to schedule out and keep on that perpetual cycle, it's about turning over harvest and growing those big plants as opposed to green, you're gonna miss out on one or two harvest a year in most cases, which will end up being more loss. It's that ROI again, you'll have more loss with that than you would over. You know, if you're trying to grow those big plants and get a little production freeze harvest. So I would say, green on scale. I do like core fiber which is the poco core, it's kind of a blank slate. You want to, your pH a little lower, you know. A little more calcium magnesium, but frankly that blank slate as long as your program is right, yields a lot of advantages.
- So being a YouTube community where we showcase growers, such as yourself around the world, we have tens of thousands of fans, subscribers that go into the comments and they share their personal opinion on how they grow. And a lot of times they critique the growers that we film, which is accepted and welcomed. I love it. But what about some bad advice that maybe you have heard along your journey as a grower that you can help squash today?
- Well, you know, there is one that I cite often when this question comes up, and that would be like sugars in bud hardeners and bud sweeteners. These really expensive products that you're dumping into your medium. And for whatever reason, the knowledge, common knowledge in the industry is that those sugars help sweeten up those buds and get up in the plant, and it's good for the plants. But the problem is, just even a simple understanding of photosynthesis will tell you that plants are incapable of taking sugars up through their roots. So while you do want some sugar in your soil, or to feed your microbial flora and your microbial mat, which does help some of those issues with the bud hardening sweetening and all, but you can, you know, molasses works. It's just a simple thing about feeding microbes is opposed to stuffing sugars into to get into plant tissue. Now, plants, they create sugars through photosynthesis. They take all nutrients or salts. They take the nutrients salts up, they combine it with CO2 in the light to create sugars that they distribute to the plants, which the plants are a lot like us. They have two vessels leggy, and we have veins and arteries. They have a xylem and phloem vessel, and they take the nutrient salts up through the Xylem vessels. They create sugars, store them in the big leaves, which also another little side note, don't take all your big leaves off. Those are your sugar storage repositories that if another part of the plant gets damaged, they use the phloem vessels, which is the other vessel to distribute those sugars to other areas of the plant to keep it healthy.
- I love it. This is why growers are hiring you, right? You were a wealth of knowledge.
- Well, I suppose I know a thing or two about growing, but I'll say I'm passionate about it. And I do believe I have a lot to offer.
- Yeah. you're constantly learning and evolving your trade. I love it.
- You know, one thing I know for sure is I know nothing at all. Constantly learning.
- There you go. It's a good mindset to have, so I want to do a rapid fire round. So I'd love your number one most important thing to know and implement for each of these areas in your grow operation. So let's start with water and nutrients. What's the number one thing that you should know and implement as a grower.
- Water and nutrients? I would say most growers know they need to pH their water, understand why, you know, try to understand why it don't be assistant grower to where you just know that you need to use a PH meter, know why you're doing it. It's to create, you know, the salts in a certain PH range becomes soluble. And so they can be taken up into the plant. So understand why you're doing things, and try to, and also don't just, memorize what all the nutrients are, the macro and the micro nutrients, you know, the molybdenum, the boron, the borons of the world, that a lot of growers,
- Know your elements. Yeah. So same question. What's the most important thing to know and implement for lighting setup?
- Well, if I would say, cause a lot of people are grown with LEDs. Make sure you have a grower that understands fertilizer science to the point where you can make the adjustments because the spectrum difference. Oftentimes, a lot of times it'll be as simple as adding calcium and magnesium. Although, of course, phosphates are carried into the plant on the back of a magnesium. So they kind of interact together, but I would say make sure that your fertilizer adjustments are correct, if according to your lighting, especially if it's LED.
- Nice. I like it next up IPM strategy.
- [Jason] Well, that's,
- That's a tough one to consolidate to.
- Yes and no. The thing is most. So industry knowledge will tell you that you need to alternate modes of action to help prevent the bugs from building up a resistance to your products. But that's really a little short sighted. And so combining modes of action. Now, if you combine modes of action, the bugs, it's impossible for them to build up a resistance to them, but it's very tricky. You have to match up the half-life of each of your pesticides and also the persistence rate. So because if you don't, whatever product you're using, it has the longest persistence rate, they will build up resistance to that. And even if there are bugs, it'll build up resistance to one, use two or three of them at the same time. But again, they have to have different modes of action. You have to match up half-life. You also have to match up persistence rate. And then also the ratios, you can't just dump them all with the same ratios, you would use if they were standalone products.
- Hmm, Well said. Trimming. Most important thing to know and implement with trimming?
- I would say, you know. So most companies want to do hand trimming it seems. And it's because it does create a better smoke. it's more, the smoke ability is better. It just tastes a little cleaner. Often it looks better. But wet versus dry trimming, you know, frankly, if you wet trim with the right machine in the right way. And the biggest mistake is people just cut down the whole room, and then start running it through a machine. And once your product gets a little soft and soggy, it bruises up, the chlorophyll gets trapped up, and it does affect the smoke ability. It looks kind of crappy. It looks like it was washed in something. The color, it's discolored often. So I would say, take down your rooms a section at a time, and have a freezer or fridge on hand. Because if you have product starting to get soft, put it in that fridge, put it in a fridge or freezer, cause it will maintain its rigidity. And then you won't have those problems with the discoloration and running it through your trimmer.
- Excellent. Last one, quality insurance, most important thing to know and implement.
- Quality assurance? The most important is . And this is when I found a lot of owners have a hard time. Understanding is flushing. it's, I actually put up signs. Well, one grower in particular, you know, that sometimes I'll try to do little tricks like this. They just said less is more. More branches doesn't always mean more butts. More leaves doesn't always mean more heavier buds, More fertilizer does not necessarily mean a better, more heavier buds, or a higher quality of smoke in fact. As we know it makes it worse. So don't be afraid to flush. And so QA, make sure that you have a clean product. Also make sure that nothing, your IPM program is in spring things. If you do it properly and start through , stop, as soon as you see flowers, make sure you're not putting bad pesticides or bad products on flowers.
- Hmm. I love it. Thank you so much for that, that rapid fire knowledge. So I'm curious, I hear a lot in the YouTube comments on Cannacribs episodes and Deep Roots episodes about nutrient deficiencies and solutions for those. Could you tell me maybe some of the more common ones that you see on the commercial scale and how you solve them?
- For sure. Well, I guess I'd start with a pH. You know, you have to recommend to use a different pH level, according to the type of soil you're using. So for example, peat, something is peat base. You have your pH at around 6.3. Most people use core fiber, the cocoa core, which I do preferr as well. And you want it closer to say a 5.8. So without that knowledge, a lot of people just end up being six three in core fiber, and then it doesn't leave all the nutrients available in the levels that the plant needs. So, and also the understanding that, you know, one that I've run into is, you know, magnesium deficiencies is in when purpling starts, it's actually a phosphorus deficiency, but because phosphorus enters into the plant on the back of magnesium. It's still classified as a magnesium deficiency. And magnesium and calcium work together in the plants as well. Just like it does with us. So with deficiencies, look for multiple signs. If you only have one deficiency on there, it's likely deficient in actual deficient. If you see multiple deficiencies on there, there's a good chance that it's locked out, and then you need to figure out why? Is it due to water that you use, or bad water temperature? Is it something atmospheric? Is it a. Most common would be a salt buildup, because all nutrients are salts and most nutrient lines have sodium chloride in it, which is basically table salt. That's the bad salt that builds up in your soil that locked the plants out. It's difficult to get them out. Although if it happens due to a salt buildup, a sugar solution running through your medium, the salts will attach to the sugars. So you don't have to put a hundred gallons through the pot. And usually we'll rebalance it, although a mineral matrix of some sort treat it like a brand muffin. You've got to reboot that system. But I would say look for multiple signs, one sign, and then discern what's causing it.
- Excellent. There's a lot of advice there the past 15 minutes. So I know a bunch of growers are going to have to keep going back, pause, listen to it. Rewind. I hear that a lot. So yeah, there's a lot of knowledge that I appreciate you sharing. So let's talk directly to the topic of a new business owner. So let's take Oklahoma, for example. There's a lot of new owners that grew operations, especially when the barrier to entry to a market is lowered, financially or legally. It's a little bit easier to start a grow operation. So what are, would you say is like some of the top mistakes that a new grower will make and without having to hire a consultant quite yet, like maybe they can remedy something internally. I know we talked a little bit about this subject prior, but maybe just digging a little bit deeper on the topic of new business owners in the space, and what they can do well.
- Well, as far as ownership goes, I would say don't be afraid to lean on the people that you hire to manage your operation, but also do your due diligence of course, and to verify that they are, what they say they are, which is not always easy in this industry. And looking for industry standards that are successful in the industry. I mean for the restaurant industry, you can Google it, but it's in cannabis is very secretive. And so it's very difficult for someone without the actual experience to just know what those standards are. So they're left to try to figure it out on the fly, and with a startup that oftentimes can be really bad. So I would say, put your ego aside for ownership and managers and management, growers. Put your ego aside, be willing to be wrong, and be willing to do the research or make the phone calls, do whatever it takes to figure out what successful standards are, and just attack it like a dog on a bone. And don't get frustrated when he can't find it.
- Yeah, I love it. And going back to the philosophies you mentioned earlier of essentially Stoicism and Kaizen. You know, Stoicism of, you can't control everything, and it's your perception of what's happening, and then detaching your emotion and ego from that. And then also the philosophy of Kaizen of constant self-improvement, always learning, always being eager to, you know, try new things, and learn how to solve it a different way.
- Well that I, that's such a big thing in the industry, and I don't know maybe a good way to put that is. In this position, you have to be confident in your abilities. But you better be willing to do the research and constantly learn. And confidence without humility is merely arrogance, and it's hard to improve or get better or even maintain as an arrogant grower, and another, you know, sometimes I've put these signs up, like less is more, another one that I've used in the past is ego free growing, put it aside, we're cultivators of life and embrace that, embrace the science. Don't be afraid. Even if you don't have any background in it, I mean, just start simple. I subscribed to service that allows me access to all the different university libraries. You know, anyone can access most of them, but there's a service that allows me access to all the published papers. Some of them even before they're published. And I would say, do your research, start with peer reviewed articles on horticulture, and then cross-reference it against cannabis specific articles to try to confirm or add to that base of scientific knowledge, just plant science. And just keep researching, just be voracious, just read, read, read. I know most people love. You know people learn in different ways. I would also say don't be afraid to read. A lot of these articles and peer reviewed articles, you're not going to find videos on, so don't be afraid to read, but don't limit yourself in the areas or the method, your methods for every research either, and just devour as much as you can.
- Yeah, I love it. So let's talk about your farm here. So maybe some new projects on the horizon that you can share? Any trends or developments in the cannabis industry today that you're really looking forward to.
- Well, of course, federal legalization that we're all looking forward to that, right. You know, I am excited about what's happening with hemp. We discussed interstate commerce before, because it's getting medicine to people that need it, they weren't able to have it before. But especially in cannabis with my company, just to go over a management of a farm here just outside of Olympia, Washington. And it's a hybrid indoor and greenhouse grow. Very excited about that project. Also has 40 acres we're looking to do hemp next year as well. But there'll be some licensing challenges to that, that we're going to sort through over the next season, have another project at developing in Michigan right now in Detroit. My consultants who have managers on the ground handling day to day on the east coast, out in Michigan. Another one up in Canada that we're discussing with. Also in discussions with TCMS, which I mentioned them earlier. Yeah. So, we're developing some program, where you're talking about developing some programs to work together on in a JV, a joint venture. So a lot of projects, and I'm of course always welcome more, depends on what they are of course. But I have, we have a great team, and we can take on most projects.
- Right on, well, I'm going to put another one on your plate for the future, whether it's Michigan or Washington, or a future grow operation, I'd love to film a Cannacribs or Deep Roots episode with you. You are a wealth of knowledge, and I'd be very much looking forward to seeing one of your grow operations in person, and sharing that with the world.
- I would love that. Nick, that'd be fantastic. It'd be a lot of fun too. It'd be a lot too. And, you know, just say the word, and we'll get that set up. I have a number that in mind that I'd love to show you in fact.
- That's awesome. Well, thank you for joining me today Jason. Did we miss anything or anyone that you'd like to cover before we wrap up here?
- We, I think we talked about a lot of good issues, you know, I would say if you were talking about maybe some of the farms I visiting. I have another one that I working with. Actually, my friend that I got into this, that got cancer, originally. He owns a farm now that they're doing some very unique and interesting things with a sustainable grow there. They took dead and rotting trees out of the forest, varied them underneath their plants to provide a source of food. I mean, talk about clean medicine.
- Wow, I've not heard that before.
- One Eleven Ranch, check them out. And they have a beautiful grow. But really, I would say for other perspective, growers out there looking to get into it, or current growers that are struggling , or having issues just don't be afraid to ask. Don't be afraid to be wrong. And don't be afraid to ask questions to people, or don't know, reach out, make comments on the podcast, get on Instagram and ask questions to growers. You never know where you may find an answer. And again, don't be afraid to research because this is a growing industry, and it's going to keep growing, no pun intended. So I'm just excited about just the growth, and the evolution of it. And maybe most importantly the medicine.
- Yeah. And being able to wake up and do what we love and helping people at the same time, it's always a good feeling.
- Love what you do. You never work a day in your life they say. And I find that to be true.
- Yeah. I agree. Well, thank you so much for your time, Jason. I appreciate you. And I really looking forward to sharing all this knowledge with the world.
- Thank you so much, Nick. I had a lot of fun today and yeah, this was great. And thank you very much.
- Take care. Hey, thanks for joining us today. I really appreciate your time, and I hope you learned something new. I want to show some love to Quest for making this episode possible so we can continue documenting history with the pioneers of our global cannabis industry. If you need help control your environment. Quest definitely has you covered. You can check out all their different units at growershouse.com Make sure to like, subscribe and share this episode with your network. And thank you again for listening. If you have any recommendations of who we should interview next, leave in the YouTube comments.